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isatrader
Fate does not always let you fix the tuition fee. She delivers the educational wallop and presents her own bill - Reminiscences of a Stock Operator.
But just a quick note for everyone when they want to thank somebody on the board. Please use the "RATE" button which is at the bottom left of the post. As it's good for quick replies to posts and gives you a way to like a post and give reputation to another member without adding extra posts to the threads. As I want to make it's as easy as possible for people to find content they are looking for, so it's a useful tool to keep the the thread sizes down and still be able to thank people.
To view the comments from the RATE button click on the "Reputation" link in the top right of a post.
Here's a link to the thread explaining: How to use the Reputation System which is in the general section for registered members.
isatrader
Fate does not always let you fix the tuition fee. She delivers the educational wallop and presents her own bill - Reminiscences of a Stock Operator.
(2014-02-16, 12:43 AM)isatrader Wrote: One thing I'd suggest to adjust on your charts if you can, is the addition of the 52 week MA on the relative performance indicator, as this is what I refer to as the "zero line" as it's what's used for the Mansfield RS zero line, which you can see in the examples in the book. It's very important to have this, as I've found the angle of the relative performance 52 week MA is very important in determining whether a Stage 2A breakout will be successful or not i.e. the strongest breakouts occur when the relative performance line breaks above a flattening or rising 52 week MA (zero line), and I also recently emailed Stan about it, and he confirmed what I thought. So I'd recommend that you include it as I think it's an important component of the method.
OK, this leads to another question, and just so that I'm clear..
I've attached the RS chart against S&P and against its overall market, FTSE
The link about its calculation uses a simple average whereas the mansfield chart uses a weighted according to the book.
I've attached the same simple and weighted, red and blue respectively
The RS zero (compared with the FTSE, bottom half window) is now flat on the weighted and above zero
Your chart in your reply uses the RS against the S&P and now both the weighted and simple are declining and below zero (only just..possibly at zero with weighted). top half chart window above
If the S&P is in stage 2, and the FTSE in stage 3, then the RS is going to be different. I respect the fact that they are correlated, and the S&P will often drag the FTSE with it but should we be comparing RS with the S&P all the time, or was this just an oversight?
(2014-02-16, 12:43 AM)isatrader Wrote: One thing I'd suggest to adjust on your charts if you can, is the addition of the 52 week MA on the relative performance indicator, as this is what I refer to as the "zero line" as it's what's used for the Mansfield RS zero line, which you can see in the examples in the book. It's very important to have this, as I've found the angle of the relative performance 52 week MA is very important in determining whether a Stage 2A breakout will be successful or not i.e. the strongest breakouts occur when the relative performance line breaks above a flattening or rising 52 week MA (zero line), and I also recently emailed Stan about it, and he confirmed what I thought. So I'd recommend that you include it as I think it's an important component of the method.
OK, this leads to another question, and just so that I'm clear..
I've attached the RS chart against S&P and against its overall market, FTSE
The link about its calculation uses a simple average whereas the mansfield chart uses a weighted according to the book.
I've attached the same simple and weighted, red and blue respectively
The RS zero (compared with the FTSE, bottom half window) is now flat on the weighted and above zero
Your chart in your reply uses the RS against the S&P and now both the weighted and simple are declining and below zero (only just..possibly at zero with weighted). top half chart window above
If the S&P is in stage 2, and the FTSE in stage 3, then the RS is going to be different. I respect the fact that they are correlated, and the S&P will often drag the FTSE with it but should we be comparing RS with the S&P all the time, or was this just an oversight?
(2014-02-16, 11:09 AM)malaguti Wrote: OK, this leads to another question, and just so that I'm clear..
I've attached the RS chart against S&P and against its overall market, FTSE
The link about its calculation uses a simple average whereas the mansfield chart uses a weighted according to the book.
I've attached the same simple and weighted, red and blue respectively
The RS zero (compared with the FTSE, bottom half window) is now flat on the weighted and above zero
Your chart in your reply uses the RS against the S&P and now both the weighted and simple are declining and below zero (only just..possibly at zero with weighted). top half chart window above
If the S&P is in stage 2, and the FTSE in stage 3, then the RS is going to be different. I respect the fact that they are correlated, and the S&P will often drag the FTSE with it but should we be comparing RS with the S&P all the time, or was this just an oversight?
I'm assuming that you are referring to point 3 on page 25 where he talks about the Mansfield Charts? This refers to the MA on the price on the charts in the book and not the relative performance MA which we are discussing, as the Mansfield charting service that he used for the books examples had a 30 week weighted MA on the weekly price bars, but his preference is for a 30 week simple MA and is what is used these days on the Global Trend Alert charts.
So back to what MA should be used to calculate the zero line on the relative performance indicator. A 52 week simple MA should be used according to the calculation I got from chartmill's documentation, and is what I've used for all charts on the forum and is very effective.
The second part of your question was about what market to compare against. You can compare against any market you choose to, but I favour the S&P 500 because it's the main US market and the benchmark that most like to compare against including Weinstein. I believe when the book was made that the Mansfield Relative Strength was compared against the Dow 30 at the time, but these days the S&P 500 is favoured as the benchmark.
The other reason I use the S&P 500 to compare against is that I needed a universal reading so that I could instantly compare the strength of any stock, commodities, index etc to each other as I cover stocks from all over the world on here and create the relative performance tables and so a universal benchmark is necessary for consistency and help with any confusion. As if you only compare to your local market then you can't gauge the relative strength versus other markets without additional work.
The other reason is that I think we should all speak the same language on here, as after thousands of charts examples using the S&P 500 as the benchmark, I've found that when a stock breaks out into Stage 2A, the RS generally crosses over or is already above the zero line (relative performance 52 week MA versus the S&P 500). So I'd recommend using the S&P 500 as the benchmark because of that and the universal readings to compare against all the other charts on here, but if you do choose to use a local benchmark like the FTSE100, then just be clear when you are talking about it in your posts, so that there's not any confusion for any of the members that don't realise that's it's comparing to a different index to all the other charts on here.
I hope that makes sense.
Cheers
isatrader
Fate does not always let you fix the tuition fee. She delivers the educational wallop and presents her own bill - Reminiscences of a Stock Operator.
(2014-02-16, 11:09 AM)malaguti Wrote: OK, this leads to another question, and just so that I'm clear..
I've attached the RS chart against S&P and against its overall market, FTSE
The link about its calculation uses a simple average whereas the mansfield chart uses a weighted according to the book.
I've attached the same simple and weighted, red and blue respectively
The RS zero (compared with the FTSE, bottom half window) is now flat on the weighted and above zero
Your chart in your reply uses the RS against the S&P and now both the weighted and simple are declining and below zero (only just..possibly at zero with weighted). top half chart window above
If the S&P is in stage 2, and the FTSE in stage 3, then the RS is going to be different. I respect the fact that they are correlated, and the S&P will often drag the FTSE with it but should we be comparing RS with the S&P all the time, or was this just an oversight?
I'm assuming that you are referring to point 3 on page 25 where he talks about the Mansfield Charts? This refers to the MA on the price on the charts in the book and not the relative performance MA which we are discussing, as the Mansfield charting service that he used for the books examples had a 30 week weighted MA on the weekly price bars, but his preference is for a 30 week simple MA and is what is used these days on the Global Trend Alert charts.
So back to what MA should be used to calculate the zero line on the relative performance indicator. A 52 week simple MA should be used according to the calculation I got from chartmill's documentation, and is what I've used for all charts on the forum and is very effective.
The second part of your question was about what market to compare against. You can compare against any market you choose to, but I favour the S&P 500 because it's the main US market and the benchmark that most like to compare against including Weinstein. I believe when the book was made that the Mansfield Relative Strength was compared against the Dow 30 at the time, but these days the S&P 500 is favoured as the benchmark.
The other reason I use the S&P 500 to compare against is that I needed a universal reading so that I could instantly compare the strength of any stock, commodities, index etc to each other as I cover stocks from all over the world on here and create the relative performance tables and so a universal benchmark is necessary for consistency and help with any confusion. As if you only compare to your local market then you can't gauge the relative strength versus other markets without additional work.
The other reason is that I think we should all speak the same language on here, as after thousands of charts examples using the S&P 500 as the benchmark, I've found that when a stock breaks out into Stage 2A, the RS generally crosses over or is already above the zero line (relative performance 52 week MA versus the S&P 500). So I'd recommend using the S&P 500 as the benchmark because of that and the universal readings to compare against all the other charts on here, but if you do choose to use a local benchmark like the FTSE100, then just be clear when you are talking about it in your posts, so that there's not any confusion for any of the members that don't realise that's it's comparing to a different index to all the other charts on here.
I hope that makes sense.
Cheers
isatrader
Fate does not always let you fix the tuition fee. She delivers the educational wallop and presents her own bill - Reminiscences of a Stock Operator.
(2014-02-16, 01:34 PM)isatrader Wrote: I'm assuming that you are referring to point 3 on page 25 where he talks about the Mansfield Charts? This refers to the MA on the price on the charts in the book and not the relative performance MA which we are discussing, as the Mansfield charting service that he used for the books examples had a 30 week weighted MA on the weekly price bars, but his preference is for a 30 week simple MA and is what is used these days on the Global Trend Alert charts.
So back to what MA should be used to calculate the zero line on the relative performance indicator. A 52 week simple MA should be used according to the calculation I got from chartmill's documentation, and is what I've used for all charts on the forum and is very effective.
The second part of your question was about what market to compare against. You can compare against any market you choose to, but I favour the S&P 500 because it's the main US market and the benchmark that most like to compare against including Weinstein. I believe when the book was made that the Mansfield Relative Strength was compared against the Dow 30 at the time, but these days the S&P 500 is favoured as the benchmark.
The other reason I use the S&P 500 to compare against is that I needed a universal reading so that I could instantly compare the strength of any stock, commodities, index etc to each other as I cover stocks from all over the world on here and create the relative performance tables and so a universal benchmark is necessary for consistency and help with any confusion. As if you only compare to your local market then you can't gauge the relative strength versus other markets without additional work.
The other reason is that I think we should all speak the same language on here, as after thousands of charts examples using the S&P 500 as the benchmark, I've found that when a stock breaks out into Stage 2A, the RS generally crosses over or is already above the zero line (relative performance 52 week MA versus the S&P 500). So I'd recommend using the S&P 500 as the benchmark because of that and the universal readings to compare against all the other charts on here, but if you do choose to use a local benchmark like the FTSE100, then just be clear when you are talking about it in your posts, so that there's not any confusion for any of the members that don't realise that's it's comparing to a different index to all the other charts on here.
I hope that makes sense.
Cheers
I was referring to page 110 "where the Mansfield chart plots relative strength; they use a complex (proprietary page 109) weighted formula". It does say the results are the same, but in some cases they could be a little different as I mentioned. Either way, I guess its taking things to an extreme for me to be that precise. I want the RS to be showing more strength, and for anglo american, it needs more. If all other factors were good as he says..
As for the RS against which market, he mentions the DJI on the majority of occasions but I just put that down to the stocks he was demonstrating..he also mentions it could have been the S&P in one example so I honestly interpreted that as the market to which that instrument is in. Unfortunately when he mentions apple, he doesn't specifically mention what his relative is..I just would have assumed the nasdaq.
However it dispels doubt to use a single reference such as the S&P..I can certainly understand that, but gives a slightly different bias as in the case of Anglo.
we start with a market for bias towards a direction, then use an RS of a different market. Anyway look, I'm not trying to argue
I'll see if I can replicate his historical charts which may be difficult given the number of years back and see if I can understand more and let you know if anything crops up.
apologies to go off on a tangent..lets see how Anglo gets on anyway, whatever its relative performance is
(2014-02-16, 01:34 PM)isatrader Wrote: I'm assuming that you are referring to point 3 on page 25 where he talks about the Mansfield Charts? This refers to the MA on the price on the charts in the book and not the relative performance MA which we are discussing, as the Mansfield charting service that he used for the books examples had a 30 week weighted MA on the weekly price bars, but his preference is for a 30 week simple MA and is what is used these days on the Global Trend Alert charts.
So back to what MA should be used to calculate the zero line on the relative performance indicator. A 52 week simple MA should be used according to the calculation I got from chartmill's documentation, and is what I've used for all charts on the forum and is very effective.
The second part of your question was about what market to compare against. You can compare against any market you choose to, but I favour the S&P 500 because it's the main US market and the benchmark that most like to compare against including Weinstein. I believe when the book was made that the Mansfield Relative Strength was compared against the Dow 30 at the time, but these days the S&P 500 is favoured as the benchmark.
The other reason I use the S&P 500 to compare against is that I needed a universal reading so that I could instantly compare the strength of any stock, commodities, index etc to each other as I cover stocks from all over the world on here and create the relative performance tables and so a universal benchmark is necessary for consistency and help with any confusion. As if you only compare to your local market then you can't gauge the relative strength versus other markets without additional work.
The other reason is that I think we should all speak the same language on here, as after thousands of charts examples using the S&P 500 as the benchmark, I've found that when a stock breaks out into Stage 2A, the RS generally crosses over or is already above the zero line (relative performance 52 week MA versus the S&P 500). So I'd recommend using the S&P 500 as the benchmark because of that and the universal readings to compare against all the other charts on here, but if you do choose to use a local benchmark like the FTSE100, then just be clear when you are talking about it in your posts, so that there's not any confusion for any of the members that don't realise that's it's comparing to a different index to all the other charts on here.
I hope that makes sense.
Cheers
I was referring to page 110 "where the Mansfield chart plots relative strength; they use a complex (proprietary page 109) weighted formula". It does say the results are the same, but in some cases they could be a little different as I mentioned. Either way, I guess its taking things to an extreme for me to be that precise. I want the RS to be showing more strength, and for anglo american, it needs more. If all other factors were good as he says..
As for the RS against which market, he mentions the DJI on the majority of occasions but I just put that down to the stocks he was demonstrating..he also mentions it could have been the S&P in one example so I honestly interpreted that as the market to which that instrument is in. Unfortunately when he mentions apple, he doesn't specifically mention what his relative is..I just would have assumed the nasdaq.
However it dispels doubt to use a single reference such as the S&P..I can certainly understand that, but gives a slightly different bias as in the case of Anglo.
we start with a market for bias towards a direction, then use an RS of a different market. Anyway look, I'm not trying to argue
I'll see if I can replicate his historical charts which may be difficult given the number of years back and see if I can understand more and let you know if anything crops up.
apologies to go off on a tangent..lets see how Anglo gets on anyway, whatever its relative performance is
